OPERATION DECK DECONSTRUCTION #3
[Use Soundwave's voice for full effect!]
Hello everyone, moving right along to my third deck analysis. Haven't recieved any comments yet, but I hope that people are enjoying the review. I definitely enjoy doing the analysis and like the challenge. It is my hope that with this analysis, the author and my readers get ideas for their own decks and hopefully make them look at deck designs in a new way. Here is the deck below.
Deck Name: This Time It's Personal
Created By: Shawn Stanley
Description: The deck came out of a conversation with a friend about the general ways of causing pool damage in Jyhad. We hit upon bleeding, voting and other. I wanted to try a deck which worked solely in the realm of the third category, "other". Other, of course is a broad category, and I wanted to try and work with master cards to do it. This back in 2004/5 so anarch revolt decks were an obvious choice, but already out there, but there was a new master card which looked hopeful: personal involvement.
Earlier versions of the deck were fun to play, but the deck always struggled with the final kill package. Hence, with subsequent versions the tried and true pool reduction tactics of bleeding and voting crept into the deck. With all of the pool manipulation in the deck, necessitated by personal involvement, parity shift was an obvious choice - but still not a card to kill people with. So some other votes, and then some bleed also came into the deck
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 16, Max: 32, Avg: 6.16)
----------------------------------------------
5 Anson aus CEL dom PRE8 Toreador
1 Victoria Ash aus cel dom PRE6 Toreador
1 Ohanna dom 2 Malkavian
3 Rake aus cel pot PRE6 Brujah
1 Violette Prentiss dom PRE 4 Ventrue
1 Mariana Gilbert cel PRE 4 Toreador
Library: (70 cards)
-------------------
Master (40 cards)
1 Art Museum
7 Personal Involvement
8 Ashur Tablets
2 Parthenon, The
2 Secure Haven
2 Dummy Corporation
2 Vessel
1 Brothers Grimm
1 Carnivale
2 Sudden Reversal
1 Direct Intervention
1 Archon Investigation
1 Pentex Subversion
1 Anarch Revolt
1 Antediluvian Awakening
3 Failsafe
2 Golconda: Inner Peace
2 Dominate
Action (2 cards)
2 Entrancement
Action Modifier (5 cards)
2 Perfect Paragon
2 Alacrity
1 Siren`s Lure
Political Action (5 cards)
3 Kine Resources Contested
2 Neonate Breach
Reaction (5 cards)
5 Deflection
Combat (5 cards)
5 Majesty
Event (2 cards)
2 Anthelios, the Red Star
Combo (6 cards)
3 Murmur of the False Will
3 Resist Earth`s Grasp
WHO IS THE AUTHOR
Shawn Stanley, while a native Australian, has bummed around with us New Yorkers for several years now. He is one of our regulars and New York Vtes would not be the same without him. He is a strong player who has a tendenacy to play a lot of strong Tier 2 (he finds Tier 1 boring) decks that keeps us city-folk on our toes.
Deck Name: This Time It's Personal
Created By: Shawn Stanley
Description: The deck came out of a conversation with a friend about the general ways of causing pool damage in Jyhad. We hit upon bleeding, voting and other. I wanted to try a deck which worked solely in the realm of the third category, "other". Other, of course is a broad category, and I wanted to try and work with master cards to do it. This back in 2004/5 so anarch revolt decks were an obvious choice, but already out there, but there was a new master card which looked hopeful: personal involvement.
Earlier versions of the deck were fun to play, but the deck always struggled with the final kill package. Hence, with subsequent versions the tried and true pool reduction tactics of bleeding and voting crept into the deck. With all of the pool manipulation in the deck, necessitated by personal involvement, parity shift was an obvious choice - but still not a card to kill people with. So some other votes, and then some bleed also came into the deck
[Adam Notes:]
So I had the benefit of talking with Shawn a little but about this deck. He told me that conversation mentioned in the description was several years old. Recently, I coincidently had a similar conversation with noteable Ben Peal. To be short, we decided that the two 'Win Machines' are Bleed and Vote. (others things, like combat, are the "engines" to make the machines work). [To be discussed in next blog maybe. :) ]. So where does "Other" fit in? In my opinion, "Other" pool loss mechanic are a "Backup Machine". Smaller, useful in certain situations but should not be mistaken for the main machine. Although we are going to talk about Personal Involvement, another good example are cards like Fame, Dragonbound, and Enticement.
So what does that mean here for Shawn's deck? Well, in Shawn's original deck it is 40 masters (70 cards) with 7 Personal Involvement. While it has a little bleed, it is basically a Vote deck. So his "Machine" is Vote with a "Backup Machine" of Personal Involvement (and some other masters). So our goal is to make a STREAMLINE VOTE DECK STARRING ANSON. 60 Card size. And then Shawn can just add 8-10 Personal Involvement. Because of Anson's special, the additional masters cards should flow nicely (although we will take it into account).
Furthermore, if we take out the Masters and make that a separate discussion (while it will tie into the rest of the library) we are really making a streamlined 30-35 vote deck with all the trimmings. It's harder then it looks but lets see what we can do!
Crypt: (12 cards, Avg: 6.16)
----------------------------------------------
5 Anson aus CEL dom PRE8 Toreador
1 Victoria Ash aus cel dom PRE6 Toreador
1 Ohanna dom 2 Malkavian
3 Rake aus cel pot PRE6 Brujah
1 Violette Prentiss dom PRE 4 Ventrue
1 Mariana Gilbert cel PRE 4 Toreador
[Adam Notes:]
Okay, now that we have determined that we have only 35 cards to make a vote deck, sure that these guys are the right guys for the job. Looking at Shawn's master package, he doesn't have Ventrue Headquarters or Toreador Grand Ball (ultimate stealth!). So let's fine a crypt that allows that and still has the DOM PRE, and celerity for stealth. While, it will be mentioned again in the Master Card discussion below, it is good to state here that Wider View is very important here as it allows Shawn to get the right crypt for the right situation. More Toreador for Grand Ball for example.
Crypt: (11 cards, Avg: 5.727)
----------------------------------------------
5 Anson aus CEL dom PRE8 Toreador
1 Mariana Gilbert cel PRE 4 Toreador
1 Delilah Easton pre 2 Toreador
1 Violette Prentiss dom PRE 4 Ventrue
1 Sir Walter Nash DOM FOR PRE 7 Ventrue
1 Itzahk Levine cel pre 3 Ventrue
1 Gideon Fontaine PRE 3 Ventrue
[Adam's Note:] Note that I only made a crypt for 11 vampires. That is because I was not sure of the 12th guy. And then I realized it depends on the player. Maybe another weenie or another prince. Below is some choices I liked.
1 Rake aus cel pot PRE6 Brujah
1 Ramiel DuPre aus cel dom PRE5 Toreador
1 Victoria Ash aus cel dom PRE6 Toreador
Small note on Sir Walter Nash. He's a vamp who should really only come out if needed, most of the time he will be wider view away.
Library: (70 cards)
-------------------
Master (40 cards)
7 Personal Involvement
6 Ashur Tablets
2 Ventrue Headquarters
1 Hostile Takeover
2 Toreador Grand Ball
1 Art Museum
1 Carnivale
2 Parthenon, The
2 Secure Haven
1 Pentex Subversion
1 Anarch Revolt
1 Antediluvian Awakening
1 Dominate
1 Golconda: Inner Peace
1 Brothers Grimm
2 Failsafe
2 Vessel
3 Wider View
2 Sudden Reversal
1 Direct Intervention
1 Archon Investigation
[Adam Notes:]
So I kept with Shawn's 40 Master package but switched around the ratios in order to make room for clan cards and Wider view. Odd note is that there is no Giant's Blood in there, but I guess Shawn made that determination originally. This package is just a suggestion, the key point are the Ventrue Headquarters and the Grand Ball. This functions as vote push and "stealth". Other options are Monastary of Shadows or Creepshow Casino.
Based on Shawn's playtesting he may want to drop some master cards (1-5) to increase non-master library to 35. Or of course just make a 75 card deck! :)
------
"Non-Master" (30 Cards)
-------------------
Action (1 card)
1 Entrancement
Action Modifier (9 cards)
2 Alacrity
2 Voter Captivation
2 Awe
2 Perfect Paragon
1 Siren`s Lure
[Adam Note: With the Parity Shift and KRC being such deal-making cards, slipping 1-2 cryptic rider may be an interesting idea.]
Political Action (10 cards)
3 Parity Shift
1 Toreador Justicar
1 Ventrue Justicar
1 Banishment
3 Kine Resources Contested
1 Ancilla Empowerment
[Adam Notes:] I'm not sold on the Toreador Justicar. It is only necessary when there are other votes on table and there is intercept next to you (needing Grand ball). Dependent on what Shawn picks for 12th vampire I guess.
Reaction (4 cards)
4 Deflection
Combat (4 cards)
4 Majesty
Event (2 cards)
2 Anthelios, the Red Star
[Adam Notes:] Review of Non-Master cards - with only a 30 card deck, each card change is pretty significant. The only thing I can maybe recommend is that Shawn might want to play with the master package a little to try to get it back up to 9 Ashurs because there are so many "one-shot" cards in the non-master cards that could be useful.
CONCLUSION:
First off, I should state that this is a very hard deck to play, and kudos to Shawn for trying to make it work. In order to play Personal Involvement you have to keep your pool near your prey, which of course gets harder and harder as the pool goes down, all the while having a predator trying to kill you of course. But I suspect that "living on the edge" is one of the reasons Shawn likes playing the deck!
Very basically, the version suggested is attempting to get a strong amount of votes so that no one playing can run around bloating with Voter Captivation and it allows you do have more control.
I'd like to thank Shawn Stanley for letting me review his deck. It actually took longer then I expected and I had to re-think a couple of times what the overall strategy is here. The idea of "Backup Machine" for alternate pool loss will most probably be in my next blog.
Adam Hulse
[Adam]
ReplyDeleteSo I had the benefit of talking with Shawn a little but about this deck. He told me that conversation mentioned in the description was several years old. Recently, I coincidently had a similar conversation with noteable Ben Peal. To be short, we decided that the two 'Win Machines' are Bleed and Vote. (others things, like combat, are the "engines" to make the machines work). [To be discussed in next blog maybe. :) ]. So where does "Other" fit in? In my opinion, "Other" pool loss mechanic are a "Backup Machine". Smaller, useful in certain situations but should not be mistaken for the main machine. Although we are going to talk about Personal Involvement, another good example are cards like Fame, Dragonbound, and Enticement.
[Shawn]
Fair enough view on the ‘other’ machine. Unlike bleed and vote the elements which fit under ‘other’ commonly do no work with each ‘other’, and commonly only work by themselves. If you actually want to make a Choir deck for example you’re probably not also going to put in 419 Operations or Enticements. There are however, essentially, in the above, two different points of view. The fundamental difference in the two points of view, is whether an ‘other’ strategy can be the ‘win machine’, or the ‘backup machine’ in a deck. I don’t think that a broad statement can be made in that regard, as there are so many ‘other’ strategies, and they are so diverse.
For this particular deck however, especially as we’re coming from a point of view to try and improve the deck, I think that re-creating with the different frame of mind is a useful exercise. The history of the deck has been one leading in this direction as well. It started as a mono-master card deck. Anson was the lone star of the deck and he existed for his special ability, vote defence, and deflecting. Bleed and votes have crept into the deck as the deck progressed, as this mono strategy proved not effective enough.
[Adam]
ReplyDeleteSo what does that mean here for Shawn's deck? Well, in Shawn's original deck it is 40 masters (70 cards) with 7 Personal Involvement. While it has a little bleed, it is basically a Vote deck. So his "Machine" is Vote with a "Backup Machine" of Personal Involvement (and some other masters). So our goal is to make a STREAMLINE VOTE DECK STARRING ANSON. 60 Card size. And then Shawn can just add 8-10 Personal Involvement. Because of Anson's special, the additional masters cards should flow nicely (although we will take it into account).
[Shawn]
That sounds like a good idea. At the moment the deck has been built and played with both bleeding and voting in mind, as it is prudent to choose only one ‘win machine’ for the deck then voting would seem to be the superior choice for this deck.
[Adam]
Okay, now that we have determined that we have only 35 cards to make a vote deck, sure that these guys are the right guys for the job. Looking at Shawn's master package, he doesn't have Ventrue Headquarters or Toreador Grand Ball (ultimate stealth!). So let's fine a crypt that allows that and still has the DOM PRE, and celerity for stealth. While, it will be mentioned again in the Master Card discussion below, it is good to state here that Wider View is very important here as it allows Shawn to get the right crypt for the right situation. More Toreador for Grand Ball for example.
[Shawn]
Before the deck only tended to bring out Anson, and Ohanna or Violette to deflect. In a low combat environment, or a high vote environment then Rake also tended to come out. But yes with the direction the new version of the deck is going the above also seems to be in line.
[Adam's] Note that I only made a crypt for 11 vampires. That is because I was not sure of the 12th guy. And then I realized it depends on the player. Maybe another weenie or another prince. Below is some choices I liked.
ReplyDelete1 Rake aus cel pot PRE6 Brujah
1 Ramiel DuPre aus cel dom PRE5 Toreador
1 Victoria Ash aus cel dom PRE6 Toreador
Small note on Sir Walter Nash. He's a vamp who should really only come out if needed, most of the time he will be wider view away.
[Shawn]
The is the most difficult part, of course, and it is not helped by the supporting Toreador in group 1-2 not being ideal for this deck.
So what do we need in terms of vampires and clan restrictions ... Anson, one other Toreador who is in play to go to the Ball, or Ventrue who is play to enable the Headquarters to be played, and one Toreador in the uncontrolled region for Art Museum. The second major vampire-choosing-consideration, I think, for this deck is inherent votes - 1 prince and a Ventrue Headquarters ain't gonna cut it.
But first what are the better options
brujah - 2 cheap princes, 1 primogen with dominate; oxford university
followers of set - ferraille
ventrue - expensive princes, ventrue headquarters
powerbase rome
legendary vampire
I’m still not sure what the best option is going to be, but I think that the above are the better options.
[Adam]
ReplyDeleteSo I kept with Shawn's 40 Master package but switched around the ratios in order to make room for clan cards and Wider view. Odd note is that there is no Giant's Blood in there, but I guess Shawn made that determination originally. This package is just a suggestion, the key point are the Ventrue Headquarters and the Grand Ball. This functions as vote push and "stealth". Other options are Monastary of Shadows or Creepshow Casino.
[Shawn]
Giant’s Blood used to be in the deck, but it was a one shot card which was only useful in particular situations. If I need blood back on my vampires because of cards that I was playing then Vessel, or Blood Doll, fit better; if I need blood back on my vampires because people were attacking me, then Secure Haven worked better; and if I needed blood on my vampires because of being blocked and then beaten up then I needed to play smarter. With all of the card recycling a card like Giant’s Blood was ultimately a dead card once I had seen it once, and even then it might be dead if it had already been played. In such a tight master card market it lost out … yes, even to cards like Carnivale … especially to cards like Carnivale.
The TGB’s are interesting although in this deck they’re only going to be one-offs, although since you’ve cut some of the stealth out later, maybe they’re OK.
The only card which you dropped out were the Dummy Corporations. I might just swap out a Wider View for a Dummy Corp. Dummy Corporation has always been good to help with getting in to Personal Involvement range.
Political Action (10 cards)
ReplyDelete3 Parity Shift
1 Toreador Justicar
1 Ventrue Justicar
1 Banishment
3 Kine Resources Contested
1 Ancilla Empowerment
[Adam] I'm not sold on the Toreador Justicar. It is only necessary when there are other votes on table and there is intercept next to you (needing Grand ball). Dependent on what Shawn picks for 12th vampire I guess.
[Shawn]
I still probably be likely to go for one Neonate Breach as one of the damage dealing cards ... but then, I do like the ability for the card just to simply remove large amounts of pool from the table. I think the damaging votes will fall out depending upon which support clan I choose to go with.
[Adam]
Reaction (4 cards)
4 Deflection
[Shawn]
Yeah, deflections are still the go. And yes, with the call of Followers of Set, earlier, then obviously Count Ormonde is the one who I was primarily thinking of. And maybe Kephamos, or Khay’tall. Maybe I should just make a group 2-3 FoS vote deck instead, and keep this deck Camarilla, and keep the Parity Shift goodness ...
[Adam ]
Combat (4 cards)
4 Majesty
[Shawn]
Given the amount of combat decks still in New York, I might leave any decision on the final number of combat defence cards out of the public eye ;)
[Adam] Review of Non-Master cards - with only a 30 card deck, each card change is pretty significant. The only thing I can maybe recommend is that Shawn might want to play with the master package a little to try to get it back up to 9 Ashurs because there are so many "one-shot" cards in the non-master cards that could be useful.
[Shawn]
And with more Ashurs then the replay-ability of the non-master cards is enhanced significantly, without an as-significant effect on the overall deck size.
[Adam]
CONCLUSION:
First off, I should state that this is a very hard deck to play, and kudos to Shawn for trying to make it work. In order to play Personal Involvement you have to keep your pool near your prey, which of course gets harder and harder as the pool goes down, all the while having a predator trying to kill you of course. But I suspect that "living on the edge" is one of the reasons Shawn likes playing the deck!
[Shawn]
Of course.
[Adam]
Very basically, the version suggested is attempting to get a strong amount of votes so that no one playing can run around bloating with Voter Captivation and it allows you do have more control.
I'd like to thank Shawn Stanley for letting me review his deck. It actually took longer then I expected and I had to re-think a couple of times what the overall strategy is here. The idea of "Backup Machine" for alternate pool loss will most probably be in my next blog.
[Shawn]
Sorry for not replying here earlier, although we have talked about many of these things in person a couple of times since then, so the options have been going around my head since then. It’s primarily the whole support clan thing which is the thing to decide.
Thanks Adam.
No problem. Maybe after a couple of games, you could perhaps tell us (the blog) your findings? I would be interested to hear it.
ReplyDeleteYou are the only one I know who has a Personal Involvement deck so I'm guessing other people would be interested as well!
Adam